Star Trek Discovery Season 3 an Improvement? Pensky File Debate (part 2)

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16 thoughts on “Star Trek Discovery Season 3 an Improvement? Pensky File Debate (part 2)

  1. There is no logical rebuttal to the sandwich analogy – further explained by Detmer's "arc". Masterful point. That is exactly what DSC is as a whole.

  2. With being stuck in due to COVID, I’ve been rewatching all of the TOS episodes including the not very good ones that I haven’t seen in many years. The other day I saw Shore Leave, which I would rank as a below average TOS episode. That episode has a guest character, Barrows, who I was more interested in, more engaged with, and more invested in than any of the main cast in Discovery. It’s pretty sad when a random Yeoman in a silly TOS episode is better than any of the main cast of a Trek show. Honestly, there’s a lot of bit characters from TOS that are more interesting than the main Discovery cast.

    That gets to the heart of the problem with new Trek: It’s a cast of characters I don’t care about, in a version of the future I don’t like, involved in stories I’m not interested in.

  3. This was really good. Whenever I hear people praise Discovery, it never gets any deeper than "Yass, Georgiou. Slay Queen!". I mean, I fundamentally disagree with everything Lore says but at least he says something, which puts him way above Ketgender or Jessie Wolski or whoever.

  4. Loved this, it was very interesting to hear the different perspectives. My only complaint is that it was to short.

    I would love for you guy to do how the character building is after 3 seasons when compared to 90s trek.

  5. Yes I agree the story telling in Discovery Season 3 is very ruff, but there is an obvious reason for that, there are 2 arcs and 2 filler episodes. In a serialized season of only 12 episodes to get good world building and storytelling every episode needs to be part of one arc. If you want more than one arc and or filler episodes in a season there is an easy fix go back to 20 episode seasons like TNG had.

  6. Been craving a discussion like this forever. It's really hard to find such opposite opinions on Discovery be discussed beyond childish screaming

    I also found it to be very revealing of what Lore takes away from story telling and this has helped me understand the perspective of not just Lore but other opinions on Trek.

    I understand both sides way better coming away from this.

    Great job to all involved, would love to see more.

  7. Most TNG stories aren't about the Federation. A lot of the TOS stories were not happy stories. There were quite a few about failed civilizations. But those stories weren't about Starfleet and Federation worlds. One thing the newer Treks do is have their stories set inside the Federation. And out of narrative necessity that has to cast the Fed in a negative light so the heroes will have something to push back against. But ST wasn't a show about the Fed.

  8. Season 3 solved some setting problems. It allows them to world-build without accidentally bumping into already set narratives. So, in that way, it's better. They rebooted the characters some for better and some for worse. Burnham is better, Saru lost some of what made him interesting as a character. DIS's never been good on emphasis and is maybe worst at it this season. I can never tell what's going to be important going forward.

  9. Thanks for this Pensky Files and Lore. As someone who finds himself conflicted over Discovery it was really really awesome to hear two of my favourite reviewers chewing this fat together.

  10. Have these guys not heard of the word exposition? Christopher Nolan makes some great movies than hinge on overt exposition
    And as far as someone not liking the journey to get to a destination, that's fine, but doesn't make something objectively bad – sure are there a couple lefts when you shoulda taken a right or missed exits, but the storytelling has been pretty solid this season – most of it actually makes sense within the universe and mostly appropriate character actions and reactions – I wasn't head over heels with the last couple of episodes – but they easily avg a 7.25/10 and that's my personal score for the whole of 1st and 2nd gen trek, so par for the course

  11. DIS never answered what this show's Fed and Starfleet were in the first two seasons that I watched. DS9 was operating in a different corner of the same world as TNG. They shared characters and events.

    DIS is a reboot roughly a decade after the last "90s Trek" went off the air. It's a different show, owned by a different corporation, made by different people. They needed to explain their story-world. But they never did. It was both "not your dad's Star Trek" and "it's just the same show with better effects." I don't think the producers/writers wanted to explore that question. They didn't want to set the show in the old Trek universe. But they also didn't want to upset fans by spelling that out. So they created ambiguity and let people see whatever they wanted to see. But that tactic leaves a lot of blank spaces.

  12. LR – I do really like your channel and do normally agree with you, but in this case respectfully I think your giving Discovery a bit to much in terms of benefit of the doubt, which is exactly the problem these 2 have with the series. I agree with them that pretty much everything in S3 seems a little too contrived and there hasn’t been a good enough focus on Building the world of the 32nd century. As a result now we’re now in the penultimate episode and I honestly can tell if the antagonist (can’t recall her name) is just stringing the Federation along with completely preposterous demands, or is actually making a serious offer that they should consider accepting. It’s disappointing because like S2 I feel like their building to an armed confrontation in the finale, the stakes of which have not been clearly layer out. For all the money put into this series, it’s a-shame the writing is not better!

  13. I don't think season 3 is the last we see of Osyraa or the Emerald Chain. I think they will carry over into future seasons after being fended off by the arrival of a fleet from Ni'Var and/or Earth.

  14. Lore – I’m glad you appreciate these guys…
    I appreciate you and your opinion because you’re approaching Season 3 in a fair and balanced way – I really don’t think these guys are capable of that
    As for Vance and Osyraa – it’s a negotiation – and an unplanned negotiation brought about because she took over a Federation vessel and kidnapped a Starfleet crew
    Vance’s comment to Osyraa that Replicator food at its base level is really ‘shit’ was Vance’s way of telling Osyraa that he’s not going to negotiate away the Federations morality or ethics – even in regards to their food supply the Federations ethics at all time takes priority and is unwavering – no matter the cost or convenience
    It’s ‘Classic’ Trek in themes and tone
    No matter what you say or argue – these guys have their minds already set
    Hope you’re having a great holidays and heartfelt blessings to you and yours!

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